Hi Justin,
A couple of years ago I spent three days at Abhayagiri, and last Sunday I visited Wat Metta for the first time to celebrate the beginning of Vassa. I don’t know if what I have to tell is what your question asked for. Both had the assorted friendly, bossy, generous and indifferent spirits, and Wat Metta had more families with children than Abayagiri. My brief time at both left me with better impressions of place than of people.
Wat Metta is located on about (very roughly) 50 acres of land in some rather rugged mountains about 25-30 miles from the coast. Lots of avocado groves around there and the last 4 or 5 mile climb places the grounds in some fairly remote countryside, but a large number of people made the trek for the 8:30 AM pindapat in a cool morning fog. As it turns out it was also the first full day after the newest monk in that sangha took the robes. Wat Metta now has 7 bikkhus, an auspicious number, one of the many Thai people told me as we stood in line to offer food. Everyone gathered in and around a small sala at the top of a hill, but before the monks ate there was chanting in Pali (English translations provided) and a brief dharma talk (English, repeated in Thai) by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. More chanting by the laity while the monks ate. I was unable to talk to Thanissaro Bhikkhu because he was busy with preparations to make a large vassa candle, but two of the monks told me that the physical accommodations for temporary stays are very limited. If there is no vacancy in the small building of rooms you can pitch a tent and camp until one is available. Naturally there is more vacancy in the winter (no snow but temperatures can hit low forties) than in the summer. I personally wouldn’t consider a tent in the summer because of the droves of red ants I had to keep shaking off my sandals. It sounds like you’ve already enquired about the what, when and where of staying there.
My 3 days of practice at Wat Abhayagiri were rather stunted. Because of the construction going on at the time and I forfeited my much anticipated meditations in those soft Mendocino hills to help the monks prepare materials for the contractors. I don’t regret it for a second and I look forward to returning to Abhayagiri for a longer stay. Similar remote terrain, snow in the winter and probably the same summer red ants descend on its peaceful kutis set out among the trees, but the accommodations are not really what it’s all about, is it? I felt at home there instantly—the people, the place, the land…the spirit of the land, which I especially tune in to wherever I am. I also had a few days of good dhamma talk thanks largely to Ajahn Amaro (Ajahn Passano was on retreat).  The truth of any place is how well it’s received in the heart, and in terms of dharma it sounds like you already know who speaks to you best.  I ditto the advice to give your self time to investigate.
The rest is not about your question, but about me. I doubt that there are many on this site who have not felt a pull towards monasticism. My own tolerance for renunciation has allowed me to little more than flirt with The Idea of it. Such a push/pull thing--the Idea appeals, especially in times of stress, but its demands are no retreat. And though my own practice convinces me every day that the dhamma has been a blessing in my life, it’s one thing to commit to a temporary renunciation of my comfortable, conventional life, but real conviction to even consider the long run. I wish you strength, and the best.
Anjali,
Jaiboon.

Dorothea and Sakula-

Thanks for your very thoughtful replies to my question regarding monastic communities. Your insights into personalities is probably very true. As far as Dhamma talks go, Ajahn Geoff’s resonate the deepest with me. His way of approaching the big issues like aging, illness and death help give my own practice perspective. I guess Dhamma talks aren’t everything though. I suppose I have a certain idea about monasteries wherin everyone acts in ways that are mutually respectful, but you are correct in that it probably isn’t always the case. I have contacted the guest monk at Abhayagiri about the possibility of visiting in October but I couldn’t give an exact date so not much has come of it as of yet. I also sent a letter to Ajahn Geoff a week or two ago outlining my intentions and my request to visit sometime soon so hopefully I hear back. As for Bhavana, I haven’t explored that possibility as much but have considered it since it is so much closer to me. I will have to look into Birken, as I know little about it. I was pretty shocked when the guest monk at Abhayagiri told me that they actually got booked up and that there is possibly going to be a waiting list for ordinations next year! It’s a good thing that so many people are interested in deepening their understanding of the Dhamma and exploring the holy life but it came as a a shock to me since I don’t know any Buddhists around here at all. You guys are lucky out West to have an abundance of communities to practice in and be a part of. It’s pretty barren here in North Florida.  I have one more question for both of you. What answers do former monks give you for why they left the robes? Once again, thanks for all your kind support. It’s nice to know there are like-minded folks out there practicing the Dhamma even though you are thousands of miles away.

Justin

Hi, Justin and JB.

Sakula has beautifully responded with advice that makes sense to me. Visit all of the monasteries that you’re considering: Abhayagiri, Wat Metta, Bhavana Society, and Birken. I’ve only been to Abhayagiri and Bhavana Society, but I know and respect Ajahn Geoff, and I’ve heard good things about Birken. We’re fortunate to have such good monasteries on our continent!

As Sakula said, the best thing to do is to visit them all. I’m pretty sure that you’ll find a different tone, emphasis, style, and mix of personalities in each one. Since you seem to have the time, I’d suggest a couple of weeks for a first visit. Then, after choosing one or two that seem to be drawing you there, return to them and stay as a lay guest for several weeks before making a decision. I think the process of moving back and forth between monastery life and life outside the monastery can be an instructive one. After all this, you might find that the lay life is really the path for you—who knows. An open mind and heart is the most important requirement for this search—with lots of introspective attentiveness.

A practical note: I’d check right away on the possibility of visiting these places. There could be a waiting list for available places. Also check what the maximum length of time is for a first visit. Having found out such details, you might find your options becoming clearer.

Good luck, and keep us posted,
Dorothea

Justin81 - 31 July 2007 01:53 PM

It’s been a few months since I lasted posted on this thread, and in those few months a lot has happened . . . [snip] . . . am leaning towards Wat Metta with Ajahn Thanissaro, although I am closer to the Bhavana Society. Any suggestions? Has anyone here been to either?

Thanks,
justin

Hi Justin,

Over the years I’ve spent a lot of time at Abhayagiri. As well I spent a week at Wat Metta several months ago. I’ve never been to Bhante Gunaratana’s place though he, like Ajahn’s Pasanno, Amaro and Thanissaro, has taught at Portland Friends of the Dhamma, so at least I’ve met him. I’ve benefited and been inspired by all these Abbots.

Because of the frequency of the visit from both Abhayagiri and Wat Metta to our center, I’ve had the good fortune to meet many of their students who come from all walks of life and histories, some not unlike your own. I suggest you visit all four (Birken included) for a short period and listen to how your heart responds. You might find your heart resonates with one community more than the others, but you’ll never know unless you visit them first. Give yourself plenty of time to comfortably investigate so you can enjoy the ride; after all, it could be your last.

Another thought arises to share with you, though you didn’t ask so just skip the rest if so inclined.

Over the years I’ve met and chatted with many people coming into and out of robes. My impression is that few folks ponder that communities are peopled with personalities, each of which has been crafted over countless of lifetimes with varying degrees of palatable success. Palatable or not, the personality is not a refuge.

When I found a community that shared my aspiration to see, know and BE peace, I found an atmosphere where the proclivities of personality, whether mine or another’s, could demonstrate themselves without a knee jerk reaction to correct or dismiss.  Given the space to see and learn what is skilful and less than so, meant compassion was as likely to arise as resentment thus offering a choice between the two.  Now when someone acts unkindly or unskilfully, I do not have to see this as an affirmation of praise or blame but rather as an opportunity for the development of Lovingkindness, compassion, sympathetic joy and (for me) the most difficult of all, equanimity.

I can’t imagine any better way to develop these sublime abidings then to purify reactions toward a community peopled with personality. Good luck in your search, I hope you find a place to support your deepest aspiration.

It’s been a few months since I lasted posted on this thread, and in those few months a lot has happened. My long time girlfriend and I are no longer together and the pull to the monastic life is stronger than ever. I have been working on trying to get time off to spend either at Abhayagiri, Wat Metta or the Bhavana Society. I have been considering all three places and am leaning towards Wat Metta with Ajahn Thanissaro, although I am closer to the Bhavana Society. Any suggestions? Has anyone here been to either?

Thanks,
justin

Thanks to both of you for your input on the matter. Both of you gave me some sound advice. I have always wanted to spend some time on a retreat but haven’t found the time. I live in North Florida and there are not really any Theravada groups and or monasteries around. There are some Tibetan groups but I have never been drawn to their ways. I thought of going up to the Bhavana society for a retreat sometime this year if time permits. You are correct in that I really do need to see if that life is for me by staying at a monastery for awhile. In terms of Nibbida, I don’t think I have enough of it at the moment either. I suppose if I did than my choice wopuld be clear. Juan, maybe I will talk to you a bit later about how you have balanced family life and life as a layperson, i’m sure you have a lot of valuable things to say. Once again, thanks a lot to you both for your insights.

Hi Justin,

I would recommend that you don’t enter into marriage or start a family until you’re fully committed to it.  Dorothea had good advice:  take an extended stay at a monastery.  Maybe even longer than a couple of weeks, if possible.  That might help clear up any doubts about which choice to make.

If it’s any comfort, true practice and progress can be made as a lay person as well as a monastic, so whatever you decide the Buddha’s teachings will be there for you as a refuge.

I have a family and I can relate to what you’re going through.  Feel free to contact me offlist if you want to talk more.

Juan

Hi, Justin.

I practiced as a so-to-speak “secular” vipassana student for ten years before I found Ajahn Chah’s monastic community. Now, I’ve been practicing as an upasika for about 16 or 17 years. I’ve never seriously considered becoming a nun. However, I’ve watched my son move from a life with a girlfriend, job, apartment (the full catastrophe, as Zorba says) to life as an anagarika and then as a bhikkhu. In my own opinion, his path was clear to him (especially after some time in India, Nepal, and Tibet). I don’t think there was any question in his mind. He knew the lay life, and he felt naturally inclined toward a life of renunciation that’s devoted entirely to the Dhamma. For me, I’ve felt no such strong pull. I’m entwined in a web of family, social, and personal connections that feel natural to me. The Dhamma is at the center of what I do—it colors everything that I do—but I know that I’m not cut out for the life of renunciation. I sometimes wonder if I just don’t feel enough disenchantment (nibbida, in Pali) with lay life to turn away from it.

Have you spent much time in a monastery? If not, I suggest that you stay for a while as a lay guest. It’s easy to get the idea that the monastic life is “the real thing” and that spending your time as a layman is a waste of time. But I think we all have our own kamma—some are cut out for monastic life and others are not. The only way to experience the reality of life in a monastery is to go there and live for a while. Even a couple of weeks can be helpful. Otherwise, it remains an ideal in the mind, and that ideal can take away the luster of lay life, which (in my experience) can be a beautiful form of life-long practice—not a waste of time at all. Furthermore, actually living in a monastery can reveal the not-so-comfortable aspects of monastic life, which can be helpful in appreciating what we have to work with as lay people.

I could say a lot more—for example about the Buddha’s teachings on the four-fold assembly—but this is a start.

Wishing you well,
Dorothea

I was just curious if anyone else on this forum has ever considered becoming a monastic. I know that even as a child I have been drawn to that lifestyle but never actually had the courage to go for it. My friends used to always wonder why anyone would even dream of becoming a monastic but has always appealed to me. Did anyone here ever regret getting deeper and deeper into lay life? I’ve been in a committed relationship for about 6 or 7 years now and love her but another part of me yearns to take the practice deeper. I wonder if I will regret getting married and doing the whole family thing.  I fear getting in so deep I don’t know how to get out so that my time in life will have been wasted. Any input on others experiences would be greatly appreciated.