Hi, Nada.

I’m glad you found a group that might be helpful to you. At least it’s worth a try. If you find that the group isn’t just exactly what you think you need to get a good grounding in your meditation practice, you could consider the correspondence course that’s given by the Insight Meditation Society. It’s available through Sounds True. Here’s a link to the Amazon entry for the course: 

IMS correspondence course

This course is not cheap (around $180), but I’ve heard that it provides very good instructions for learning vipassana meditation. One important aspect is that it includes one year of guidance from an experienced meditator associated with IMS. You can communicate with that person through email, so you can get personal advice about your very own practice. As I say, I don’t have experience with the course myself, but I’ve met others who say that it was extremely helpful to them. It’s especially helpful to people who don’t have regular access to a teacher or a regular meditation group.

It’s just a thought. Maybe someone else on the forum has experience with this correspondence course or has other ideas to suggest.

Let us know how the Zen group works out. Good luck.

Dorothea

Hi Dorothea,

thanks for your reply. I’m in Pennsylvania, but not really near any major cities. I did some research again on meditation groups—but this time without trying to find a specifically Theravadin group—and I found a Zen group that is about a half hour away. I have contacted the group’s leader, and I hope to start sitting with them next week. You are right, it is better to have some structure. I am not disciplined enough on my own.

cheers,
Nada

Hi, Nada—and welcome!

You said:

I don’t have a Theravada center near by, so meditation would be on my own at home, and I can’t even seem to manage that—I worry that I would be doing it wrong or messing up my mind or something. I would feel more secure with some expert guidance/supervision, but that’s not easy to come by. And just the idea of trying to find a live teacher or mentor to put trust in is fraught with its own anxieties. I’ve thought about going off on a longer retreat somewhere, but with family responsibilities, well, you know . . .

I tried meditating on my own when I first started reading about Buddhism. It didn’t work at all. I really needed a teacher and was fortunate to find a meditation center where I could take classes. It was reassuring to get some instruction, to talk about practice with a teacher and other students, and to be supported by the discipline imposed by a once-a-week class. In my experience, it’s best to work up to a long retreat slowly. Take a class and meditate at home regularly—even if it’s just ten minutes a day. Then participate in a day-long retreat, then a weekend retreat, then maybe a week-long retreat.

Where do you live on the East coast? Maybe there is a center that’s closer than you think. Or maybe there’s a meditation group that you could join. Even if it’s not in the Theravada tradition, it might still be a support for you. If we know what city you’re in, maybe one of us on this forum might have some useful information for you.

Again—welcome to the forum!
Dorothea

Boy, was I ever relieved to read this:

One of my favorite stories when first beginning this practice was around fear. Fear that I did not have it in me to bear the mind state I thought was arising because of sitting still. What I quickly saw was that my mind didn’t ‘go’ crazy but was indeed already ‘crazy’. Now doubt turned toward questioning if I could bear knowing this, could I accept this?  Sitting through a weekend meditation retreat helped soften this particular fear/story because it became obvious that I had been bearing a crazy mind all along. Seeing this meant I would not ‘go’ there cause I am there and being there am bearing it. Dropping the doubt about ‘going mad’ gave rise to a new doubt however, ‘could I get sane’? . . . still working on it actuallyl, LOL, only now with confidence that this practice does indeed mature even the very crazy. Ask anyone in my family and they’ll give a smiling nod of agreement;)

One of the biggest stumbling blocks in my practice is fear. A long time ago, I went to a “learn how to meditate” retreat (a short one), and I did not have any troubles, but part of me still fears the meditation process for some reason. I think things like “Can you get stuck in meditation (like some sort of trance state) and not be able to come out?” or “Can it cause you to lose your grip on reality?” or “Would I go mad?” ;) I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who has thought this way. I don’t have a Theravada center near by, so meditation would be on my own at home, and I can’t even seem to manage that—I worry that I would be doing it wrong or messing up my mind or something. I would feel more secure with some expert guidance/supervision, but that’s not easy to come by. And just the idea of trying to find a live teacher or mentor to put trust in is fraught with its own anxieties. I’ve thought about going off on a longer retreat somewhere, but with family responsibilities, well, you know . . .

muddled as usual,
Nada

Dear Upasika Sakula:

Actually, I don’t live next to Abhayagiri monastery, but rather I live next door to the Vipassana sangha in Santa Cruz. I still feel blessed, though. They are a great group of people. And a few months ago, Ajahn Amaro came down and gave a dharma talk there, which was wonderful!

I really appreciate the response you’ve written regarding my fear of “going crazy” at a retreat—it makes so much sense. Why am I doing this anyway? Because I have at moments realized the craziness of my life. That’s what brought me to meditation, and to a path towards saneness. So yes, I guess I’ve been accompanied by this craziness much of my life, so I think I can bear to see it a little more clearly, along with everything else. I read a brief passage today from Joseph Goldstein, about how the simple thought of “courage” once helped him get through a bad time. And right now two words keep echoing during moments when I feel “wimpy”: have courage, and have heart.

Funny how difficult it seems to just be with the happy moments without grasping at them. I’m having a pretty happy day today, actually. I know it will pass, and morph into other states of mind and emotion as the day, and the week progress. For now I bow to them all—and to you!

namo

JeanV

I appreciate the posts on this subject, as I have yet to participate in a “real” retreat. I look forward to attending one with mixed feelings. Can I sit for so many hours without going crazy?  I’m even a little wary of experiencing some kind of blissful state. Some months ago, I experienced a brief “opening” shall we say, and it was wonderful, but I soon became very grasping about it, which resulted in a depressive state (something that’s not common with me) that lasted for about a week.

Oh well, perhaps it’s just part of the process of learning to let go of my expectations…

Kris:

Very interesting perspective on the west and mediation.  I have always somehow thought that if I won lotto, I could then afford to live my life in meditation and that would fill my purpose for existing.  I loved Ajahn Amaro statement that “if you have time to breathe you have time to meditate.” For a moment I stopped just reading the words and felt my self breathing, reading and meditating all in the same moment.

Thank you for sharing these teachings.

In Metta Always.

Bob
http://www.lotusretreat.org

I came across this interview of Ajahn Amaro this morning in which he shares some thoughts and observations of the subject of retreats.  http://www.abhayagiri.org/index.php/main/article/169/

I will never again pass over a talk or article based on what I “think” it’s about based on the title.

Greetings to All,

Sakula - Right on target! This controlling ego tends to get just a tad too creative once in a while. I look to Ajahn Sumedho’s teachings often - especially when I realize that I’m beginning again to take my views too seriously. He can help me laugh at myself as no one else can.

Dorothea - I had not had much of a problem with comparisons or worries about practice until about a year ago. Up until then I guess I was just too busy learning. Then someone told me that if I was “really serious” I should go to Asia for study and retreat. Not just any retreat - but a retreat in Asia! That really threw me for a loop. I allowed that to cause a lot of doubt about my commitment. Silly, but that was my reaction. I did get over it, but every now and then a little glimmer of doubt begins to arise - usually after I’ve read of someone’s wondrous experience while in retreat. LOL!  My circumstances are very fortunate, and I have a great appreciation for the opportunities I have to practice. I just need to be a little quicker in spotting that “but if only…” thought when it begins to appear. (The time between visits is ever so gradually getting longer)

Bob - Yes, I think keeping the Dhamma in our hearts and minds is prime. I find great inspiration and guidance in the Dhamma talks offered by the Sangha. I put them on cd and usually listen to a talk each day. Sometimes I’ll hear one and not “get it” at all. Then maybe weeks or even months later I may be dealing with a certain situation in practice - or just “life” that has me stumped and something I heard in a talk will suddenly be clear. It’s amazing.

Tony - I know that “fuzzy” thing! And the “starting again”. It’s so helpful to hear that my experience with these things is not unique.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences! Your generosity is very much appreciated.

With Metta,

Kris

My take on this topic today is, I don’t think they are essential, as such, but I do think that practice involves, well...practice! If I don’t practice then my picture of what is the goal, what is Buddhist practice, what am I doing this for etc goes a little fuzzy and out of focus. Even with practice, the waters can be cloudy.
For me, retreats are a mixed blessing. I love doing them and generally get very high and inspired. I then sometimes can have lots of aversion to the re-entry phase which does thankfully pass and then I do notice all kinds of distinct benefits.
I see “formal meditation retreats” as part of a range of skilful or useful means including dana (giving), keeping sila (morality), meeting up with “kalayanna mitta” (not sure of the spelling) or spiritual friends and so on. The purpose of these things, in my view, is to get clear about how things are. To be mindful. To understand. A retreat can be a way of plugging into an inspirational source. They can also be very boring.
Going on retreats for me is part of making the right effort to practice, assuming you can go on retreat. It might be at a particular point in your life, then there are other ways of keeping your picture from getting fuzzy, like taking part in this forum.
When my kids were young, my wife and I stopped going on retreats for a while because we did not want to leave the kids until they could make sense of where we had gone. (They were young, not dumb!)It seemed right at the time to stop for a while. With hindsight now, I think it might have been better to carry on going and they would have gained more from having a retuned dad, but hindsight is always wonderful.
I suppose the other point that comes to me as I pound the keys is that sometimes nothing works , if by working you mean gaining insight, being happy, not suffering. So sometimes a retreat produces a particular outcome which you like, sometimes the end result is not so fantastic.
Perhaps the only thing that is “essential” in practicing is to keep going and if you have ground to a halt, begin again.
What I think is essential for me when on retreats is to stay loose, and not take it all too seriously.Others might need to go the other way.

This is a good question to reflect on, I have been looking at this same question in relationship to my own practice closely recently and hope in the Spring and Summer to take advantage of more opportunities for formal retreats.

I have spent a lot of time on personal retreats that have been just me and my heart sitting under an oak.  Nothing is better for the soul in my opinion.  I have property in the mountains of Mendocino Ca near Garberville, which I freely share with my friends (and anyone on this list I would consider a friend), where I drive to and spend days truly alone or with the company of my friends.

A balance of both personal retreat time and with a teacher I think is a good thing, but if there is not opportunity for both for whatever reason, keeping true to the Dharma is what is most important I think.  It just takes more self-discipline.

The following quote I copied some time back as part of reading material for a personal retreat to focus on.  You may find it useful.  Also, I just recently found the Dhamma talks by Ajahn Pasanno on the homepage, these wonderful audio files have brought the Sangha into my home, or I imagine, I could save the teachings and chants on an iPod device and bring them with me to the mountain, or anywhere.

Thank you for asking the question, I think it is one that many of us ask in regards to our practice.

In metta always,
- Bob

Buddha sat under the fig tree

Wandering through the northeastern India, Siddharth sought out holy men, and learned about Samsiara (reincarnation), Karma, and Moksha. One day, Siddhartha realised that his years of penance only weakened his body, and that he could not continue to meditate properly. When he stepped into the river to bathe, he was too weak to get out, and it is believed that the trees lowered their branches to help him.

At that instant, a milk-maid named Nandabala came and offered a bowl of milk and rice, which Siddhartha accepted.

Refreshed by the meal, Siddhartha sat down under a fig tree (often referred to as the Bo tree, or Tree of Enlightenment) and resolved to find out an answer to life and suffering. While meditating, Mara (an evil god) sent his three sons and daughters to tempt Siddhartha with thirst, lust, and distractions of pleasure but Siddhartha stayed unswayed in deep meditation, and recalled all his previous rebirths, gained knowledge of the cycle of births and deaths, and with certainty, cast off the ignorance and passion of his ego which bound him to the world. Thereby, Siddhartha had attained enlightenment and became the Buddha (enlightened one)

Hi, Kris.

I appreciate your question: “Are formal meditation retreats essential?” I’m now retired, but I spent lots of years working in the corporate world, with only a two- or three-week vacation per year. With family responsibilities, I found it very hard to attend formal retreats. I often found myself envious of my friends who had jobs that demanded less time. So I think I can identify with where you’re coming from. I too was worried that not being able to go on lots of retreats, or on long retreats, meant that I wasn’t a “serious” practitioner and that I’d never progress on the path.

But over the years I’ve developed the perspective that we simply do the best we can with what we have. And I think this is in line with the quotations that Sakula gave us from Ajahn Sumedho. I try not to have a hope or expectation of getting to any particular state or stage on the Path. I try not to even have an attitude in which I’m assessing my progress towards some goal. I’m just doing the best I can with the opportunities at my disposal at this time. I trust that my practice will develop at its own pace if I just keep plugging away sincerely and persistently. Any comparisons of my opportunities, or my attainments, with those of others will just encourage an unwholesome, judging quality of mind. But an attitude of gratitude for what I do have will encourage a wholesome, accepting quality of mind. And, of course, our quality of mind is what we’re trying to develop.

As we all know, maintaining an accepting, non-judgmental attitude is easier said than done. I certainly find myself comparing my situation with that of others. And I often fall into the trap of worrying that I’m not progressing fast enough. But when I notice such an attitude, I try to acknowledge it (“look at that, there it is again”) and let it go. I’ve got a long way to go before I’m free of these states of mind entirely (sigh). But it helps a lot to notice the practice opportunities that I *do* have.

You said, “I do have the opportunity to sit with friends, and that has been helpful in many ways. And I’m fortunate to be able to practice in “self-retreat” periodically.” It sounds to me like all’s well with your practice—and with your attitude.

That’s my two cents on your question. Thanks for asking it. I enjoyed ruminating about it.
Dorothea

Hi Mark,

Yes, I feel the same. But, since I’ve not had the experience of a formal retreat, I suppose it could be said that I don’t know what I’m missing.  I do have the opportunity to sit with friends, and that has been helpful in many ways.  And I’m fortunate to be able to practice in “self-retreat” periodically. Without the presence of a guiding teacher or others to watch and learn from it’s as close as I can get for the present.  I quickly learned that animals couldn’t care less about noble silence, but over time they have begun to demonstrate great restraint! That is until they decide it’s time for them to eat!

With Metta,

Kris

I personally think that daily practice is more important than formal retreats.  In fact, integrating mindfulness into one’s every step amidst the torrential chaos of everyday life is the ultimate expression of an awakened being, at least to me.  But formal retreats and sitting with those who have more experience than you can be quite beneficial.  I guess what I mean to say is that it is up to your own mind to spend the time and effort needed, whether that be at a monastary or busy street corner.

Hello everyone,

The reason I ask is that this is not possible for me, at least not now or anytime in the near future. This may be the case for others as well.

Metta,

Kris