It’s nice to hear that Ajahn Pasanno did not have a stroke. I hope whatever afflicted him has passed without any permanent effects, and the people in and around where he stayed can be notified that there may be a toxin in their midst.

I logged in to recommend Ajahn Summedho’s book, The Sound of Silence , which I just finished. The actual teaching of the sound of silence, the technique, if you will, is only a small portion of the book (if you’ve read Inutitive Awareness you’ve read half of it). Like most of his teaching, it is very practical and down to earth. Highly recommended for those seeking answers to unanswered questions.

Anjali,
Jaiboon.

That’s wonderful to hear. I hope the information regarding the toxic chemicals gets passed to the appropriate authorities so that others who use the area he was staying don’t fall ill. Thanks for the fast “update.” Perhaps you could persuade whoever runs the website to put this good news on the News section so others could read about his condition.

Justin81 - 24 March 2008 03:17 PM

It’s been awhile since I’ve asked so i’ll ask again...how is Ajahn Pasanno doing these days?

Hi again Justin,

Well, it’s very good news actually. Apparently Ajahn, once back in the States, was given the complete go over by his two long-term doctors .  From what I understand, neither of them think he had a stroke. In fact one of them went so far as to describe what could of caused his symptoms (a combination of toxic fumes) and low and behold Ajahn was indeed exposed to such chemichals while staying at a monastery just days before he fell ill. He has since been asked to quit taking his stroke medication.

I’d say that’s a pretty good responsive to all the metta sent his way. If this keeps it up it maybe he’ll even start getting younger! Not sure that would be good news to him but would any of us mind having him around for another hundred years?

It’s been awhile since I’ve asked so i’ll ask again...how is Ajahn Pasanno doing these days?

Hi Dorothea,

Rather than a translation, I meant that I preferred “Dhamma colleague” to “good friend”. Something I miss not having a job is not having colleagues. Also I have been a generous benefactor of a major Theravada Buddhism website, communicating with the webmaster only by email. “Dhamma colleague” means that I can be happy even though I’ll never get to talk to him on the phone. He is busy doing good deeds, without worrying about how much praise he’ll get. I can emulate his example.

Thanks for listening / Antony.

Hi, Antony.

I’m glad to hear that you’re walking easily again, that you’re less frail, and that you have some volunteer opportunities to explore. This is good news!

One thing I wonder about in your translation of “kalyana-mitta” as “Dhamma colleague” is whether it leaves out the element of goodness. My understanding is that “kalyana” translates as noble, good, or beautiful. I also wonder whether “colleague” has the same feeling of good-will that “friend” has. But I also feel as if we should use translations that spark an interest for us, and ring true for us, even if they aren’t exactly what the scholars suggest. In my experience, a translation that I’ve come up with can be useful for me because I’m more lilkely to roll it around in my mind and work with it—rather than just accepting a translation that’s been given to me. So, go for it, Antony. I think you should use your own translation if it’s useful.

By the way, here’s a link to the translation of “kalyana-mitta” from the very handy Pali dictionary by Venerable Nyanatiloka. It’s published by the Buddhist Publication Society in Sri Lanka. The book is a classic.

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic3_k.htm

The first page of the dictionary is here:

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/bud-dict/dic_idx.htm

Cheers,
Dorothea

Dear Sakula,

I apologize for the off-topic post. I’m starting to translate kalyana-mitta as “Dhamma Colleague” as they are not primarily a conversation partner.

Colleagues are those explicitly united in a common purpose and respecting each other’s (commitment to) and abilities to work toward that purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collegiality

with metta / Antony.

Hi Sakula & Dorothea,

The volunteer job with The Smith Family that I posted about in this thread last year (post #61) didn’t eventuate (and the Buddhist interviewer doesn’t work there any more), but I have come up with another idea. I have a University Degree in Economics and Financial Mathematics, with experience in High School math tutoring, plus I have done a Basic Counselling course (and have received more than 100 hours of counselling). The Smith Family happens to also run a non-profit course on financial literacy. I’m hoping to become a Volunteer Financial Counselor.

Is it OK to express such non-Buddhist aspirations here?

Thanks / Antony.

PS I have finally learned how to walk again (e.g. 4.5 miles in one morning) without having to concentrate on every step (I was quite frail a few years ago). And I’ve been on the same medication for over 3 years.

Justin81 - 05 February 2008 04:59 AM

Sakula-


Yes, i’m surprised by your fast reply. I’m very happy to know Ajahn Pasanno is back and recovering in an environment that lifts his spirit and perhaps will aid in his getting better.

Just to clarify, I actually don’t know IF Ajahn’s spirits lift when being in a snowy enviornment. Based on the calm I gather from such scenes I meant only to imply my hope that this may be true for him too. May be splitting hairs here but didn’t want to mislead anyone that I was speaking for him.

Justin81 - 05 February 2008 04:59 AM

. . . Looking at the feeling tone of pleasant, unpleasant or neutral without the added narratives has given me a nice place of refuge when I’m using it in a skillful way. I don’t seem to be able to keep it going for very long but the experience of seeing things in terms of feeling has been beneficial for me.

I’m a bit of lagger here, but I’m working it.  My refuge lies closer to ‘seeing’ the narrative rather than its nonarising. Good thing too, otherwise my refuge would be way too obscure to visit LOL. Still, I find a wonderful refuge in “Seeing is NOT beleiving”. I find even the slightest gain in living independent from the feelings that arise in tandem with perceptions is enourmously freeing hence worthy of all the effort I can give it.

Thanks for sharing Justin, I enjoyed considering your thoughts here and seeing where my own practice might align. Very uesful dialogue.

Sakula-

Yes, i’m surprised by your fast reply. I’m very happy to know Ajahn Pasanno is back and recovering in an environment that lifts his spirit and perhaps will aid in his getting better. I think hearing his talks on the Khandas really helped me understand them better and realize that they could be used as objects of reflection throughout the day. They could be taken up as a practice so to speak. In the past I had always looked at them as philosophical doctrine and not as the reflections that they could be used for. I’ve been trying to work with all of them but have found that feeling and form have been the ones that i have been drawn to. Looking at the feeling tone of pleasant, unpleasant or neutral without the added narratives has given me a nice place of refuge when I’m using it in a skillful way. I don’t seem to be able to keep it going for very long but the experience of seeing things in terms of feeling has been beneficial for me. Form as the breath has also been a grounding thing for me, as in focusing on the breath as just form when I can feel the mind wanting to reach out and grab hold of a mood or whatever. Also, form as it relates to body contemplations such as the ones described in the suttas. I have worked in surgery before so seeing the body as it is anatomically internally and externally isn’t a stretch for me when I’m in the mood to contemplate form in that way. When thoughts or “sankhara” arise, regardless of the narratives I want to spin around them I can watch them come up and label them as such before the narratives distort things. The same with perception. Sometimes when I see someone I might automatically start to form a perception of good or bad, attractive or unattractive around that person even if I don’t even know them. It seems like that is what I do most of the time, but in light of seeing these perceptions as just perceptions it’s sometimes easier to step back and act in more skillful ways. I find in general that looking at my experience the way Ajahn Pasanno describes really does tend to cut through alot of what Ajahn Geoff would call “the added condiments” that we tend to put on things almost all of the time. I’ll tell you that I have a long way to go in terms of making this a foundation of my practice but it’s been very useful and I am sure to continue with this. I hope that you have taken something useful away from his talks as well. May you be well in your practice of the Dhamma.

Justin81 - 04 February 2008 07:40 PM

Just wanted to know if anyone has heard of Ajahn Pasannos condition and whether or not he is recovering well. I certainly hope he is well. That set of talks on the Khandas were fantastic and have given me much to work with. May he and the rest of you be well.

Hi Justin,

Just happen to be sitting here at my computer when your question came in. Bet you’re surprised to get a response so quickly. I heard from the monastry recently that “Ajahn Pasanno returned from Thailand a few days ago, safe and mostly sound. Having had his minor stroke there he has recovered reasonably well but he still has very little in the way of resources; he tires easily and generally has very little energy - “No steam” as he puts it… Still, he is in very good spirits and glad to be back in the cool and quiet of Abhayagiri.” Along with this where a few photos of the monastery during a snow storm. I’ll post a few on my blog site to share with you (or anyone for that matter) if interested. As I find being in a snow scene calming and uplifting its nice to think of Ajahn Pasanno recovering in such an atmosphere.

By the way, I’d be interested in hearing more specifically, if you care to share, how you are working with the talks on the Khandas, maybe find some inspiration or some shared experience . . .

On a final note, I’ll be out of town for till the 17th beginning this Thrusday so no hurry though I’ll definetely try and reply if you write before that.This Upasika Life

Just wanted to know if anyone has heard of Ajahn Pasannos condition and whether or not he is recovering well. I certainly hope he is well. That set of talks on the Khandas were fantastic and have given me much to work with. May he and the rest of you be well.

Thanks so much Dorothea!

Kris

Hi, Kris.

You asked: “Can anyone tell me the difference between a branch monastery and an associated monastery in relation to the Forest Sangha?”

Well, I suspect that it depends on the context. I don’t think that the terms are universally used or understood in the same way in every situation. Let me ramble a bit on my experience with the terms.

In Thailand, I think that there’s an idea that there’s a main monastery that is the central location for a particular lineage. That main monastery is the place where the head of the lineage resides—or did reside when he was alive. For example, Wat Pah Pong is the main monastery in Ajahn Chah’s lineage, and that’s where Ajahn Chah lived. As one of his disciples became mature, he might go off and start a branch monastery of his own, with Ajahn Chah’s blessing. In earlier times, the monk would just go off into the forest and live there. If people gathered around him, a monastery would flourish. In more recent times, a new monastery might develop because some supporters of the monk would find some land and invite the monk to come and establish a monastery there.

New monasteries in the West are established in a similar way. Lay people in a given area decide that they’d like to have a monastery close by. They gather the resources, find the land, and invite some monks from the main monastery to come and establish the monastery. That’s how Ajahn Sumedho was invited to come to England—a group of British people asked Ajahn Chah to start a monastery there, and Ajahn Chah delegated Ajahn Sumedho to make it happen. Similarly in California, lay people wanted to have a monastery, and they asked Ajahn Sumedho to send monks to make it happen. Thus Abhayagiri was born. Now Ajahn Sumedho’s monastic community (the Forest Sangha) includes monasteries in England, Italy, Switzerland, California, and elsewhere. All of them were created pretty much in this way.

Representatives from all of these monasteries are invited to attend periodic meetings of the Elders’ Council. These gatherings include the abbots and other senior representatives of all the monasteries in Ajahn Sumedho’s community. If a group of lay people wanted to establish a new monastery that’s part that community, they would ask the Elders Council to provide the monks for the new monastery. If the Elders’ Council decided to support the new monastery, it would be considered a branch monastery, and the Council would take responsibility—at least for the first several years—for making sure that it was adequately staffed with monks. As the years go by, the new monastery might become more independent. Perhaps it would spin off branches of its own. But it would always be part of the Forest Sangha family, and I think it would always have the right to send representatives to the Elders’ Council—even if it didn’t always exercise that right.

In addition to monasteries that have been created through the Elders’ Council (or its precursors), there are Western monasteries that have been established by monks in Ajahn Chah’s lineage but without support from the Elders’ Council. Examples are Birken Monastery ( http://birken.ca ) and Arrow River Hermitage ( http://www.arrowriver.ca ), both in Canada. These might be referred to as associated monasteries—as opposed to branch monasteries. Their abbots do not come to Elders’ Council meetings, the Elders’ Council doesn’t take responsibility for making sure that they are staffed with monks, and they are not bound to live by the decisions of the Elders’ Council. However, they are still part of the family, and good relations are enjoyed by monks visiting back and forth.

For a description of the Elders’ Council, and its precursors, see an article called “How Does the Sangha Decide?” from the October 2006 issue of the “Forest Sangha Newsletter.” Here’s a link to the article:

http://www.fsnewsletter.amaravati.org/html/77/decide.htm

Note that the last page of each “Forest Sangha Newsletter” lists the monasteries under the perview of the Elders’ Council—plus a few more, such as Wat Pah Nanachat, the international monastery that Ajahn Sumedho founded in Thailand before he came to England, and some monasteries in Australia and New Zealand. Just to muddy the waters a bit, the heading for the list is “Associated Monasteries.” This just goes to show that the terms “branch” and “associated” aren’t technical terms with universally agreed upon meanings.

You can also see a list of monasteries on the Forest Sangha web site. On the home page, the monasteries are divided into “Thailand,” “Europe,” “Other,” and “Related.” Birken and Arrow River are in the “Related” category. Here’s the link:

http://www.forestsangha.org/

Well, this is probably more than you wanted to know. And I hope I haven’t passed on any information that isn’t correct. If I have misspoken, please forgive me—and I hope someone will set me straight.

Dorothea

Hello All, and Happy New Year!

Can anyone tell me the difference between a branch monastery and an associated monastery in relation to the Forest Sangha? Just curious.

Kris